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#141 Aisha

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 09:02 PM

View PostThe Observer, on 04 January 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

According to the answer he gave: 2 days after Comiket, the game was already in the torrents.

Well, here is a screenshot of the game originally being posted to /jp/. This is where Doujinstyle got it from. If TRIS-GRAM is upset about the game literally being "in the torrents" then he's obviously seeing the game uploaded somewhere we don't know about. I can't find the game on TokyoToshokan or Nyaatorrents, and I can't think of any other tracker regularly used for Comiket uploads by Westerners. On the other hand, if TRIS-GRAM meant "in the torrents" figuratively, then all bets are off and this screenshot only supports the notion that a foreigner bought it at Comiket and uploaded it.

This is a mess. I'm not even upset about the loss of "English support". Overall I feel sad seeing TRIS-GRAM like this because he was always so friendly and welcoming to us foreigners following his game, even to the point where it became overwhelming for him. I appreciated that. But now there's probably no turning back.

Also, now he's following in icewind's footsteps and similarily making it so that you need information from a physical copy of the game to download the patches. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if he were to set up an IP filter on his website and diary.

#142 mjclark

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:02 PM

Hmm.... that 1.00b patch was up and unprotected this morning so it's probably out in the wild somewhere though...
...Shame to have pissed him off so much. Reminds me a bit of what happened with GwangeDash though obviously this is a commercial release...
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#143 The Observer

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:24 PM

I get the feeling he KNOWS the person(s) who did the upload, which makes it all worse, especially if he precisely asked against this... or to at least to keep it very low profile. Releasing it in /jp/ was by far the worst decision, many japanese have "repeating stations" (lol, that's how I call them) that bring them the info of what's going on at the other side. They are not idiots at all.

A pity this has happened right the Comiket I had no cash for, god dammit... :( I hope he can release the game at DLsite but I would like to advise him on mounting a self-store and admiting PayPal payments. At least we know most of the shmups board would by it in a second.

edit: Tris-Gram has responded some stuff to deathpiyo, I'll wait for him to transcribe me what it says. Apparently, it's more Direct Messages than anything else. So much protocol between the sentences... Makes me afraid of ever using informal japanese (which we are learning) in fear of sounding like an orc. Speaking of deathpiyo, work gave him some breath so he's going back to developing UTL for a bit. At least some good news!

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#144 Aisha

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:32 AM

What is convincing about that idea is that the /jp/ uploader wrote "If you enjoy it, don't forget that the circle will sell it on dlsite soon." In light of your idea, it seems to me that the poster felt guilty about uploading the game and tried to make amends (at least to ease his own mind) by writing that below the download link. Uploading is usually guilt-free because there's no connection with the author, but I think that I'd feel a bit shitty if I uploaded the game of a developer with whom I was on aimiable terms. But, I'm just armchair speculating now...

At this point I'm wondering if TRIS-GRAM will even put it on English DLSite (not that we can't buy it from the Japanese front..). He might want nothing to do with us now.

Good to hear about UTL. I hope deathpiyo is feeling better as well. I'd be interested to hear what he finds out from TRIS-GRAM, but if it's all in private messages then I understand if it's to be kept private.

#145 Ghalion

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:52 AM

View PostAisha, on 05 January 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

At this point I'm wondering if TRIS-GRAM will even put it on English DLSite (not that we can't buy it from the Japanese front..). He might want nothing to do with us now.

If he had plans to to begin with, I think he should. Like I said, I think it's immature to punish a whole whack of people for the offenses of a few. Let the legit customers support him. I really don't know if he had plans to to begin with or not though.

#146 mjclark

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 01:12 PM

Could somebody please explain how Overkill works.
Also how the values of the coins and gems increase.
Like I said before there's a lot to this eh?
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#147 UltimaPi

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:18 PM

View Postmjclark, on 03 January 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

How does Overkill work- how is it generated and what effect does it have?
What items are necessary to fill the ES and DS gauges?
How do the other gauges work?
What happens when I cancel ES?

I haven't bothered running the help files through Google translate, so if this stuff already out there, I apologize for the repost.Also, this is only what I've noticed so far. Too busy dodging to pay attention to other stuff.

Overkill is achieved when you... overkill something. You can overkill with a Raid attack (when it says Raid OK in the bottom right), and if the boss is very close to near death (don't bother raiding the second you're allowed to, it doesn't always finish off the boss) you'll see it's HP bar start filling up with gray stuff. This means you're overkilling it, and you get a nice overkill bonus.

You can also Overkill by going into Ethereal mode (the one where your missile-laser-things start coming out one after another for as long your gauge can support it). Once ethereal mode ends naturally, that's you get the kill and the Overkill bonus. Since I think Delayed mode gives your normal shot a boost in damage, I activate that well before Ethereal mode, so I can get the Counter attack gauge going.

I know that for C-Type, if you stop shooting your charged-shot-thingy-gauge fills up a lot faster. Not sure if it's the same for ES/DS (doubt it).

I always thought ES/DS filled naturally. DS is that big blue bar. The bar under that is the Counter gauge that fills up while you're in Delayed mode. Once it fills up, the screen gets cleared of bullets. The bar under THAT is the Overkill bonus gauge. I'm not sure why it keeps filling up and draining, but I suppose it's a chaining mechanism?

Bottom left is the Ether gauge. Both ES/DS can be used at 50% filled, and assuming you're allowed to during boss fights. You'll see the messages in the bottom right; grayed out for not available, colorful for availability.

When you cancel ES, you... leave ES mode. I think it's also cancelled when you get hit, but I'm not sure if it takes away a shield-bomb or not. I know that in DS if your counter is ready but not full, and you get hit, it activates the counter and doesn't take away a shield-bomb.

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What's the difference between Story and Rule Mode? I noticed that Rule doubled my level (...why?), but there seemed to be no other noticeable differences.

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#148 Takoshi

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:21 PM

I have a more basic question: I've been acquiring coins at the end of each play I do, but only the coins that I have collected for that stage. Is there any way I can collect the coins I gathered from the stages before that? For instance, let's say I get 4000 coins on stage 1, and then I get 3000 coins on stage 2 and for some reason, die. I will get the 3000 coins from stage 2, not the 7000 I have collected this play. Is that normal?
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#149 Aisha

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:30 AM

I'm probably wrong on more than one point, but...

Overkill is the damage you do to an enemy after you have depleted its health. It is initiated by Assault (i.e., homing lasers), Blade, or Raid. Getting Overkill creates a Combo Bonus, which causes a multiplier to be applied to the value of enemies shot down, as well as perhaps to other things, like jewel value (I'm not sure). The Combo Bonus can be maintained by chaining enemies; the chain health is indicated by the thin green bar in the upper-left. When setting a Combo Bonus, doing Overkill damage on more than one enemy (which I think has to be medium-sized or larger) results in a Multikill multiplier being applied to the Combo Bonus.

You can combine your shot/laser, Assault, and Blade/Raid to get a very high Combo Bonus. For example, against the red enemy near the beginning of Area 1 (the one that appears with a "Warning" label), laser it until it has about 25% health left and use Assault to finish it off. You'll have a few frames before it explodes where you can use Blade and laser on it some more. You should be able to get a Combo Bonus of 25-60,000. You can chain it all the way to the yellow crystal, where you should repeat the same procedure, except that you'll finish it off with Raid for a Combo Bonus of around 60,000+. Both your Delayed and Ethereal Shifts should become available by this point if they haven't already.

The key thing about the Combo Bonus is that when setting a new Combo Bonus, a fraction of the old one is added to the new one. This allows you to build a very high Combo Bonus throughout the stage and boss. It provides incentive to purposefully let your Combo Bonus chain expire at certain points in the stage. It's really hard to maintain your chain anyway. Only medium and large enemies seem to refill the chaining bar, so it's probably not possible to chain entire stages.

For reasons which I don't quite yet understand, it's important to trigger Delayed Shift or Ethereal Shift when you have a Combo Bonus active. During a Shift, the Combo Bonus is frozen so you don't need to chain, and you cannot perform Overkill. When a Delayed or Ethereal Shift ends, so does your Combo Bonus.

Delayed Shift needs to be played like Espgaluda where you allow enemies to flood the screen with bullets before you shoot them down. The density of bullets increases when Delayed Shift is active. It is the primary method of acquiring jewels, which I believe are score items. The more you collect, the more valuable they become, I think; they change color, up to white/diamond. Their value might be affected by other factors, such as Combo Bonus. Delayed Shift can be activated when the Delayed Shift bar (fat blue bar at the upper-left) reaches 50%. It fills on its own, but I believe doing Overkill damage helps it fill a bit faster. Finally, Delayed Shift increases the power of your weaponry; this can be stacked with Overdrive (press and hold Bomb to activate).

Collecting jewels during a Delayed Shift fills the Counter Shift bar, which is the thin pink bar underneath the Delayed Shift bar. There are three levels of Counter Shift. The level of Counter Shift simply determines the radius of the aura that emits from your character when Delayed Shift ends. Bullets that this aura touches are converted into jewels. It also does some damage to enemies; it can effectively kill popcorn enemies and larger ones as well if they have been damaged beforehand. You can manually use a Counter Shift to prematurely end your Delayed Shift. The advantage of this is that it allows you to clear the screen of bullets while leaving enemies alive on the screen that you can immediately use to set up a new Combo Bonus. It can obviously be used defensively as well.

Ethereal Shift is the primary method of collecting coins, which increase the Multiplier counter in the upper-left corner. The Multiplier is applied to most sources of score in the game, with the exception of the End Stage bonus, and I think Timer bonuses during bosses. Ethereal Shift can be activated when the thin orange bar in the bottom-left reaches 50%. It fills on its own and I don't think anything can cause it to fill faster, but I'm not sure. During an Ethereal Shift, more enemies are spawned, allowing you to acquire more coins. If you get hit during an Ethereal Shift, you will lose a bomb; you will die if you have none left. There is nothing you can do to safely and manually end an Ethereal Shift. Also, you cannot use Raid during an Ethereal Shift, but you can use Blade as much as you like; your Assault is set to rapid-fire Auto-Assault as well (double tap Assault button to toggle this when not in Ethereal Shift, but it won't be as fast).

Ethereal Shift is also necessary to enter Counter Burst Mode. This is a special mode which triggers when you finish off a segment of a boss's lifebar during an Ethereal Shift. You hear a siren, the screen background turns red, and the intensity of the boss's current bullet pattern increases several-fold. During Counter Burst Mode, you can continue attacking the boss for a massive increase to your Combo Bonus when it ends. Counter Burst Mode lasts for the duration of the Ethereal Shift, so it's important to activate Ethereal Shift when a section of a boss's lifebar has a sliver of health left in order to maximize the amount of time you have with which to do Overkill damage. Getting hit during Counter Burst Mode does not cost a bomb or life, but it ends the Ethereal Shift prematurely.

Essentially, Type-S scoring boils down to setting a high Combo Bonus through Overkill when possible, and maintaining a balance between Delayed Shift and Ethereal Shift usage. You need to collect large amounts of both coins and jewels, so you can't just use one type of Shift throughout the whole game. There are some areas of the game that are better suited for Delayed Shift and vice versa; for example, the rush of enemies just before the Area 3 boss is perfect for an Ethereal Shift, in my opinion. It's helpful to watch TRIS-GRAM play his own game a few times: youtu.be/z2ZcE45Z_ec. Note that coins no longer change color when playing Type-S in version 1.00 or higher, and also that the Multiplier counter is visible. The main point of mystery is that we have multiple components (coins, jewels, Combo Bonus, etc) that we need to make use of to score well, but we (or at least I) don't understand how they affect each other and the formula that the numbers go through en route to your score total.

I don't know a damn thing about Type-C play.

When playing Easy and Normal Mode, you lose a bomb whenever you get hit. This is not the case in Normal-Ex to Pandemonium.

Rule Mode provides a preset character. The level and accessories are fixed. This is useful for score competition because everyone is on equal footing. Story Mode allows you to level your character (up to 50 in the current version) and wear accessories, which modify various parameters. Eventually, I believe TRIS-GRAM will be adding dialogue and such to Story Mode, but plans can always change.

Extra accessories are unlockable by completing achievements ("Medals") during the game, which add points toward your Class Level. I suspect that you get a new accessory whenever you raise your Class Level, but I'm not sure. Check the Certification section under Game Data. Class Level 2 gave me a Black Candle, while Class Level 3 gave me me an Ethereal Diffuser+. I think. I'm actually not sure when I got those accessories, but this seems to make sense.


View PostTakoshi, on 05 January 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

I have a more basic question: I've been acquiring coins at the end of each play I do, but only the coins that I have collected for that stage. Is there any way I can collect the coins I gathered from the stages before that? For instance, let's say I get 4000 coins on stage 1, and then I get 3000 coins on stage 2 and for some reason, die. I will get the 3000 coins from stage 2, not the 7000 I have collected this play. Is that normal?

Yeah, I think it's normal for the number of jewels and coins you come away with to be throttled somehow. Otherwise you could buy out both of the shops pretty quickly.

#150 Melancholic

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:37 AM

Guys, what does a black candle do? I got it somehow, but it's not on any of the item lists I could find (both of them!).

#151 mjclark

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:52 AM

Thanks for the summary so far Aisha! That's really helpful and lets me see even more what an amazing and deep game this is :)
For sure there's plenty more mysteries to be uncovered too- it's like Crimzon Clover and Hellsinker had a baby!
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#152 Aisha

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:05 AM

The Black Candle allows you to start with an extra bomb, but it makes it so that if you take a hit during an Ethereal Shift, you will die instead of losing a bomb like normal.

#153 UltimaPi

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:20 PM

View PostAisha, on 06 January 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

Ethereal Shift is also necessary to enter Counter Burst Mode. This is a special mode which triggers when you finish off a segment of a boss's lifebar during an Ethereal Shift. You hear a siren, the screen background turns red, and the intensity of the boss's current bullet pattern increases several-fold.

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I don't know a damn thing about Type-C play.

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When playing Easy and Normal Mode, you lose a bomb whenever you get hit. This is not the case in Normal-Ex to Pandemonium.

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Extra accessories are unlockable by completing achievements ("Medals") during the game, which add points toward your Class Level. I suspect that you get a new accessory whenever you raise your Class Level, but I'm not sure. Check the Certification section under Game Data. Class Level 2 gave me a Black Candle, while Class Level 3 gave me me an Ethereal Diffuser+. I think. I'm actually not sure when I got those accessories, but this seems to make sense.

The DS gauge is increased by killing stuff. You'll see it grow by tiny bits, especially when you kill bigger stuff, particularly bosses.

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ES... I'm not sure that it increases boss attack pattern intensity. I didn't see any differences. Is this in Normal-EX and above (lol, just kill me now).

I noticed that in Area... 5 I think, I activated ES a bit after mid-boss, and some extra stuff appeared, one of which dropped an extra life O_o;

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C Type play relies mostly on getting your Discharges off in a nice timely fashion. They're pretty powerful, but if you're not using it, particularly in later stages it's a moot point. I also believe that you get more coins/jewels/exp in C Type, but I can't really be too sure about that.

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I haven't gotten Black Candle. Then again, I haven't 1cc'd Normal yet either. However, I have Hi Accuracy Reticle (Assault +10%), what looks to be Ethereal Concentrator + (Laser +5%), and Ethereal Diffuser + (Main, Sub, and Orb Shot +10%). I've only 1cc'd Easy so far. I did notice that when I went to try Pandemonium out for the first time, I automatically got a notification message that I got something before I could even move.

I've also noticed that sometimes Exp is occasionally awarded to the character I'm not playing. Is the game just trying to keep my chars on equal footing? I don't particularly like Azerletes lack of wide range (thought Assault usually makes up for it).

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#154 mjclark

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 05:31 PM

So just out of interest does anyone know the backstory?
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#155 ViperAcidZX

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:21 PM

Dumb question: I got the rip from the C81 games thread and while the window title says v1.00, in the game it says v0.50a. So it's not the full game?

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#156 The Observer

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:26 PM

View PostViperAcidZX, on 07 January 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Dumb question: I got the rip from the C81 games thread and while the window title says v1.00, in the game it says v0.50a. So it's not the full game?
Yup, it's not the full title. It's part of the versioning mess Tris-Gram got himself into. I always find a bit confusing that crazy release schedule of versions he was preparing...

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#157 mjclark

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:49 PM

View PostViperAcidZX, on 07 January 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Dumb question: I got the rip from the C81 games thread and while the window title says v1.00, in the game it says v0.50a. So it's not the full game?
If you look at the TRIS-GRAM's blog you'll see it was just an error in the update patch. His entry for Jan 4th translates:
"About embarrassing mistakes

About the bottom of the screen title "0.50A" We have been, "1.00" is incorrect.
(After applying the patch is 1.00A.'s Version is the more correct representation of the file name and the title bar)

I forgot to leave things as is and with 0.50A for convenience during development (_ _;
(Note that A is married to confirm when appending minor layout version)

So, the exact version of the latest version "1.00A" will be.


It truly is a mistake that could give a little misunderstanding, we corrected ahead here."

When the original v1.00->1.00a patch came out, the new updated version mistakenly displayed "0.50a" but this was later fixed. When you update from 1.00a to 1.00b it then reassuringly (and correctly) changes to "1.00b" in the display :)
See there's a new 1.00c patch out though which can only be accessed if you've got a physical copy of the game...

...and still wondering what the back story is.
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#158 Aisha

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:21 PM

I remember reading that the story will be added later, but I can't remember which diary entry I read that in; maybe Twitter even. Maybe I dreamt it. Didn't a really early version of the game (0.1x) have pre-boss dialogue?

EDIT: Can someone please briefly summarize the latest diary entry, 滑り込みの定例+α? It seems to talk about the future, and something called the "R System" with regards to Stellavanity.

#159 xxx_burner

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:27 AM

can someone tell me how to download the update for this game?

also, i cant level up the thunder character even after i use it and clear the game.
everytime i finish it, it always leveling the wind one.
is this some kind of bug?

#160 encephlon

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 07:55 AM

this topic has probably been beaten to death by now but didn't TRIS-GRAM at one point want to cancel the game entirely and was contacted and pleaded by "foreigners" not to? To see those very same foreigners pirate the game would be a slap to the face/stab in the back. He feels betrayed and disillusioned of doing sales overseas to such a small and niche fanbase, hell theres even a thread about why shmups aren't popular outside of jpn.
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