24 replies to this topic

[Puppet Master]

Source:

Spoiler

http://www.naplesnew...und-defense-ca/

Quote

A 15-year-old who fatally stabbed his school mate will no longer face criminal prosecution.

A judge’s ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law. The State Attorney’s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling.

Nuno’s family and friends criticized Collier County Circuit Judge Lauren Brodie’s decision, calling it “unbelievable” and “heartbreaking.”

Brodie’s ruling concluded that Saavadra, who said he was bullied and tried avoid a fight with Nuno, did not act unlawfully. She added that Saavadra had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.

Brodie based her decision this week on the findings from a two-day December hearing, during which students who witnessed the events Jan. 24, 2011, testified that several teens announced the fight on the bus, and Saavedra got off several stops early in Golden Gate Estates. Saavedra showed a pocket knife to two teens on the bus that afternoon.

In a nine-page document released Tuesday by the State Attorney’s Office, Brodie stated that by getting off the bus several stops before the location where the fight was to happen, Saavedra “demonstrated that, with or without a knife, (he) had no desire to fight with Dylan Nuno.”

Accompanied by several students, Dylan Nuno, a junior, followed Saavedra, a freshman, off the bus. He then punched him in the back of the head, according to court documents and testimony.

Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart.

In her decision, signed Dec. 30, 2011, the judge said Saavedra had “no duty to retreat” and was “legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force.”

“The defendant was in a place where he had a right to be and was not acting unlawfully. He had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm ... (He) was under attack from the first punch to the back of his head until he stabbed Dylan Nuno.”

thoughts?
he had it coming, what a moron.

[rockpad]

me:

meany kids who get bullied begin weaker
until there have so much fear that are ready to kill

but so what that guy did it by his self
(yeah it sound kinda retard)

still murder is bad

[encephlon]

wouldn't his family still get sued?

[Puppet Master]

why?

[Oblivion3600]

Bullying, one of the many rejects of society
He should've been punished and not killed but, just bcuz i hate bullys, good for the guy that got bullied
^ It may sound unhumane, but i don't give a damn, ppl should know their place and shouldn't start meaningless fights
I rest my case.

[Takashi]

Karma hits bully real damn hard in the goddamn fucking face

[Capensis]

i'm not really sure what to think of this as there is not enough information for me to decide whether or not saavedra really was legally enititled to use deadly force in this situation.

i honestly wouldn't think so since the bully confronted him with only his fists, but if saavedra truly did fear the danger of death...

i definitely don't think 12 stabs was necessary, however.

encephlon, on 06 January 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

wouldn't his family still get sued?

if Nuno's family chooses to.

[shinigami852]

I see this as a justified act of self defense. The other kid punched him in the back the head while he was trying to get away. Use of force is authorized as there was no other option...

[Kirei]

Capensis, on 06 January 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

i'm not really sure what to think of this as there is not enough information for me to decide whether or not saavedra really was legally enititled to use deadly force in this situation.

This. Not enough to go off of.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was just the catalyst in a long chain of events, the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, though. If Saavedra stabbed a kid to death because he punched him once, I have to wonder what he would do were he presented with a greater threat. So it goes without saying that isn't the case at all, I think.

[pegasaurus]

As the statement says, Saavedra had no desire to fight. The conflict was brought to him, justifying the use of force in response. Even if his response was to use deadly force, it is still justified.

And while the bully's family can sue, a counter-suit can be made saying that the actions of the bully forced Saavedra to resort to using force to protect himself, causing emotional and psychological stress.

As is with most cases that result in the loss of life, I can't help but feel sad for the bully's death. But will I go so far to say that Saavedra is a murder and that the death was unjustified? Of course not.

[LurkerDude]

Sad someone died but I have to agree with the Judge's decision. The kid tried to escape but the bully wouldn't let him, and even though it was just a punch I can see where the kid would be afraid for his life. Afterall we've all heard stories where someone died in a fight. The human body is more fragile then a lot of people realize.

[Azanam]

In my opinion it was, of course self defense, but really, he exceeded. 12 stabs? that's a lot. of course the punishment for the bullied boy crime should be less that the one that a "normal" murderer deserves.

[Lunatic Faker]

If he stabbed him that many times then this bullying has probably gone on for quite a while. While I don't condone killing the poor kid probably couldn't take it anymore and violently lashed out.

My sympathies to the family of the bully but I can't fault the kid that killed him either.

[Automatic Cat]

Quote

The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

• It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.
  
• In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”
  
• In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.
  
• If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.

Under these conditions, the bullied boy sounds justified. 12 stabs is indeed excessive, but this bully vs. bullied moment seems to have been going on for some time. By the pretense of a group of kids against one kid, it certainly implies they were going to do great bodily harm to him, so he had a right to defend himself in that manner under Florida's law.

[Christmas Nidoqueen]

I saw the pictures of the dead kid.

He got slashed up pretty good!

[Hlrest]

Even if he did have full right to self-defense, 12 stabs is fucking ridiculous. I have to really wonder just HOW much danger he REALLY thought he was in.

[Mayson]

Hlrest, on 08 January 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Even if he did have full right to self-defense, 12 stabs is fucking ridiculous. I have to really wonder just HOW much danger he REALLY thought he was in.

I'm pretty sure he used the chance he had to get his revenge, maybe for past experiences with the guy. It would be still self-defense in that case, but he really got everything out of it he could.

[Hlrest]

Wow. Just fucking wow.

One punch to the back of the head, and he flips out and stabs the guy 12 times? Bullshit he had the right to do that.

I've had that happen to me before, but did I stab my tormentors? No, I didn't. I simply stayed calm and ignored them. This guy needs to learn to turn the other cheek once in a while.

And now he gets away with murder. How corrupt is our society...

[Mayson]

Hlrest, on 08 January 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Wow. Just fucking wow.

One punch to the back of the head, and he flips out and stabs the guy 12 times? Bullshit he had the right to do that.

I've had that happen to me before, but did I stab my tormentors? No, I didn't. I simply stayed calm and ignored them. This guy needs to learn to turn the other cheek once in a while.

And now he gets away with murder. How corrupt is our society...

Apparently, it's perfectly possible to feel seriously threatened by assault at the back of the head. You know, you might take serious damage from it if the attack is just hard enough. Not to forget he was cornered by several people.

Now, if he really was bullied all the time by these people, he might have felt enough terror and fear to justify this action from his sight. It's not like one can avoid school and other students without breaking the law,...

[KanakoVoWG]

I applaud the judge for the decision, but until we learn more about the circumstances regarding him snapping and stabbing the bully (one-off or two-off thing, or has it been going on for a few weeks or longer?), I'm going to say it was a bit excessive.

HIrest/Chagen: Dude, don't start the "OUR SOCIETY'S CORRUPT!" spiel. As far as I can tell, everything was under the law; only the force used for defense was over-the-top