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Texas School Shooting: Brownsville Police Shot And Killed Armed Middle School Student


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#1 Capensis

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 06:49 PM

you probably shouldn't tl;dr this for the sake of the officers' side of the story.

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BROWNSVILLE, Texas — Police shot and killed an eighth-grader in the hallway of his middle school Wednesday after the boy brandished what looked like a handgun and pointed it at officers. It turned out to be a pellet gun that closely resembled the real thing.
Fifteen-year-old Jaime Gonzalez "had plenty of opportunities to lower the gun and listen to the officers' orders, and he didn't want to," Interim Police Chief Orlando Rodriguez said.

Shortly before the confrontation, the boy had walked into a classroom and punched a random boy in the nose for no apparent reason, police said. Investigators did not know why he pulled out the weapon.

"We think it looks like this was a way to bring attention to himself," the police chief said. He said the officers' actions were justified and no one else was hurt.

Authorities declined to share what the boy said before being shot.

The shooting happened during first period at Cummings Middle School in Brownsville. Teachers locked classroom doors and turned off lights, and some frightened students dove under their desks. They could hear police charge down the hallway and shout for Gonzalez to drop the weapon, followed by several shots.

Two officers fired three shots, hitting Gonzalez at least twice, police said.

The boy's father, Jaime Gonzalez Sr., said he had no idea where his son got the gun or why he brought it to school.

"We wouldn't give him a gift like that," he told The Associated Press from the family's home, where other relatives and friends of his son were gathering Wednesday night.

He said nothing seemed amiss when he, his wife and their son went out for nachos the night before, then went home and watched a movie. He said he last saw his son Wednesday morning, when the boy said goodbye before leaving to catch the bus to school.

Gonzalez Sr. was struggling to reconcile the day's events, saying his son seemed to be doing better in school and was always helpful around the neighborhood mowing neighbors' lawns, washing dogs and carrying his toolbox off to fix other kids' bikes.

Both he and his wife, Noralva, questioned why police repeatedly shot at their son and called the shooting unjustified.

"Why was so much excess force used on a minor?" he asked. "Three shots. Why not one that would bring him down?"

His wife, who demanded that the officers be punished, added: "What happened was an injustice."

Rodriguez said his officers "took the necessary action to protect themselves and the other kids." There weren't many others in the hall at the time, but "they had every right to take the action that they took."

The boy's godmother, Norma Leticia Navarro, said she couldn't imagine why he would have brought a gun to school.

"I wish I could ask him why he did that, `Why did you put yourself in that position?'"

She said she understood that police were doing their job, but she wondered if other steps could have been taken.

"Jaime was not a bad kid," she said. "I'm not saying he was perfect or an angel, but he was a very giving person."

David A. Dusenbury, a retired deputy police chief in Long Beach, Calif., who now consults on police tactics, said the officers were probably justified in their actions.

If the boy was raising the gun as if to fire at someone, "then it's unfortunate, but the officer certainly would have the right under the law to use deadly force."

Administrators said the school would be closed Thursday but that students could attend classes at a nearby elementary school if they wished.

Superintendent Carl Montoya remembered Gonzalez as "a very positive young man."

"He did music. He worked well with everybody. Just something unfortunately happened today that caused his behavior to go the way it went. So I don't know."

Gina Rangel was in her first-period class in the gym when the school was locked down. She said friends who were closer to the confrontation heard the boy threaten to kill everyone.

Her mother, Irma Rangel, said she was worried about the school's safety "because if this happened once, kids imitate."

Brownsville, on Texas' southern tip, is beset by spillover violence from Mexico's drug war. As word of the shooting spread through the city, frantic parents rushed to reach their children.

Those who got there early were able to retrieve their kids, but some who arrived later found the street outside the school lined with squad cars and blocked off.

Two hours later, dozens of frustrated parents and relatives flooded out of the park pavilion without their children after school officials announced that all remaining children had been bused to a high school and could be picked up there.

Julie Tomalenas waited for an hour to pick up her 13-year-old sister before being told of the relocation.

"It was very stressful not knowing if she was OK, where she was, when we could see her again," she said.

Wednesday night, two dozen friends and classmates gathered in the dark street outside the family's home. Jaime's best friend, 16-year-old Star Rodriguez, said her favorite memory was when Jaime came to her party Dec. 29 and they danced and sang together.

"He was like a brother to me," she said.

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#2 DeathdruidX

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:09 PM

Yeah, I'm sure most people are going to automatically side with the kid. I think the officers did what was needed. He should have put down the pellet gun, and he just shouldn't have brought it to school in the first place.
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#3 Kirei

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:14 PM

Fair.

If the officer's story is indeed factual, anyway.

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#4 ayana

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:18 PM

"If they do anything I can shoot them with my pellet gun!"

^ that kind of thinking, usa~?

why... usa~

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#5 Hiryuu

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:23 PM

 DeathdruidX, on 05 January 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm sure most people are going to automatically side with the kid. I think the officers did what was needed. He should have put down the pellet gun, and he just shouldn't have brought it to school in the first place.

Except they could've done something like beanbag bullets and that might've been enough to end it right there. A kid that age, in eighth grade, doesn't necessarily have the logic to know that they need to stop whatever the hell it is they're doing. They're barely a teenager at that point (actually, it seems the kid is 15...in eighth grade, that means he's slower than your normal kid). If anything it should've been a shoot to disarm, not shoot to kill. Three shots? That was shoot to kill.
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#6 Purin

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:02 PM

 Hiryuu, on 05 January 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Except they could've done something like beanbag bullets and that might've been enough to end it right there. A kid that age, in eighth grade, doesn't necessarily have the logic to know that they need to stop whatever the hell it is they're doing. They're barely a teenager at that point (actually, it seems the kid is 15...in eighth grade, that means he's slower than your normal kid). If anything it should've been a shoot to disarm, not shoot to kill. Three shots? That was shoot to kill.

And what if the kid had a real gun? The officer had to act before people got hurt and he did his job. There is no time to assume that the kid is not ready to shoot up the school regardless of his age. Also, academically gifted or not, a 15 year old knows what they are doing when they point a gun at someone. He refused to put his pellet gun down and the officer did what was necessary.
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#7 Hiryuu

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:28 PM

 Purin, on 05 January 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

And what if the kid had a real gun? The officer had to act before people got hurt and he did his job. There is no time to assume that the kid is not ready to shoot up the school regardless of his age. Also, academically gifted or not, a 15 year old knows what they are doing when they point a gun at someone. He refused to put his pellet gun down and the officer did what was necessary.

Still doesn't change the fact that non-lethal force could have been used to disarm him. Anything to disable him first before taking the shots. If it would've been enough to knock him on his ass or disarm him, that would've been enough time for them to rush him, cuff him and haul him off. Not going to change the fact that what was done is what was done but a kid can't learn from his mistakes if he's dead.

I've seen older men wielding shotguns and terrorizing civilians that were stopped with beanbag bullets. It does work.
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#8 Hi-C

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

There is preparation to disarm and there is on the spot decision making. I think this was of the latter. Some officers are armed with plastic bullets (not like it doesn't hurt any less), and some still hold live ammunition. I think the officers at my HS used live ammunition, but I digress - The kid should not have brought such a toy to school and should have listened to the police officers. Officers did their job.
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#9 Automatic Cat

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:47 PM

The officer was justified in his actions. The kid had what resembled a real firearm. You have to consider it real until proven otherwise. The officer has to put his own safety as well as the safety of all other subjects in the building into account over the kid. They gave him plenty of warnings, the other students also heard this.

Edit: At age 15, he is quite capable of being responsible for his own actions.
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#10 andrena

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:08 PM

 ayana, on 05 January 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

"If they do anything I can shoot them with my pellet gun!"

^ that kind of thinking, usa~?

why... usa~

A lot of pellet guns look, and even feel, strikingly real. In all likelihood, the kid knew what was going to happen from his actions and was being intentionally suicidal. Its in standard police procedure everywhere I've been to use lethal force given a public place and a person with a gun.

#11 DarkMatter

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:14 PM

Wait what ? You have policemen patrolling with live ammo in your highschool ?

 Kirei, on 05 January 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Fair.

There is nothing fair in tragedy. :/

btw are all highschools the same over there ? I mean, officers patrolling hallways with live ammo ?

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#12 pegasaurus

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:25 PM

I'm not siding with the kid here.
A gun was present at a school. You can play the whole "he's too young to understand" crap, but when an entire middle school class falls victim to a school shooting, you'll be the one eating those words. The officer gave the kid many opportunities to disarm himself. The shot was justified.



 DarkMatter, on 05 January 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Wait what ? You have policemen partolling with live ammo in your highschool ?

I don't see what's so unusual about that. Criminals don't deal fake drugs or carry fake weapons just because they are in the vicinity of a high school.

Most non-lethal weapons nowadays are useful for dispersing unruly crowds, but useless when it comes to disarming an armed suspect. If cops are only armed with pellet guns, I highly doubt it will deter a criminal packing handguns.

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#13 DarkMatter

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:36 PM

Well, I guess that is because I live in a country where gun control is pretty strict and dealers prefer to run away whenever a policeman come toward them. :/

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#14 pegasaurus

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 01:44 AM

 DarkMatter, on 05 January 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Well, I guess that is because I live in a country where gun control is pretty strict and dealers prefer to run away whenever a policeman come toward them. :/

If all dealers had that mentality, drugs trafficing would be far easier to control. Unfortunately, there are those who are willing to go suicide by cop just for the chance to take a couple uniforms down with them. That's why I believe the police has to be armed.

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#15 Punky

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:36 AM

Injustice my ass. That kid was quite literally asking for it; as sad as it is.

I also can't believe some of the comments I'm reading on that page.

"Shooting him may have been justified but killing him wasn't." Really? I'm sure cops don't have the power to control whether someone lives or dies by a bullet...

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#16 Hiryuu

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:47 AM

 Punky, on 06 January 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

I'm sure cops don't have the power to control whether someone lives or dies by a bullet...

Depends where you shoot...
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#17 Purin

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:58 AM

 Hiryuu, on 05 January 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

I've seen older men wielding shotguns and terrorizing civilians that were stopped with beanbag bullets. It does work.

And I've seen an incredibly unfortunate video of a police officer being killed because he hesitated to take down a man with a gun when he had the chance.
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#18 peregrin

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:17 AM

 pegasaurus, on 05 January 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Most non-lethal weapons nowadays are useful for dispersing unruly crowds, but useless when it comes to disarming an armed suspect. If cops are only armed with pellet guns, I highly doubt it will deter a criminal packing handguns.

Nope. Tear gas is good for crowd-dispersal, but non-lethal weapons are meant to incapacitate. Think tasers and pepper-spray. What I assume had happened was that the police in question weren't properly equipped to use non-lethal methods from a distance, saw a gun being pointed at them, freaked out, and shot the kid. In fact, my guess in any situation is that the officer saw the kid with the gun, freaked out, and went for whatever self-defense he could get to first. I'd imagine that it's hard to think about things like how lethal something is going to be when you're looking at a life-or-death situation for yourself.

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#19 shinigami852

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:52 AM

I'm siding with the officers but three shots is really overkill...
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#20 pegasaurus

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 04:20 AM

 shinigami852, on 06 January 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

I'm siding with the officers but three shots is really overkill...

When you're looking down the barrel of what could be a lethal firearm, I don't think the number of shots to take is the first thing on your mind.

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