68 replies to this topic

[peregrin]

shinigami852, on 13 July 2011 - 02:25 AM, said:

"If it's not your fight pick the side that wins."
I like Israeli weapons too. They made famous weapons like the Desert Eagle, the Uzi submachine gun, and the IMI Galil...

The only reason that Israel is the side that wins here is BECAUSE we picked it. If we had decided to aid the Palestinians instead, Israel would probably be in the same situation as Palestine right about now. Of course, the obvious solution is to aid neither side in terms of their military strength and instead focus on establishing peaceful relationships between them.

[Grilleds]

peregrin, on 13 July 2011 - 06:59 AM, said:

The only reason that Israel is the side that wins here is BECAUSE we picked it. If we had decided to aid the Palestinians instead, Israel would probably be in the same situation as Palestine right about now. Of course, the obvious solution is to aid neither side in terms of their military strength and instead focus on establishing peaceful relationships between them.

Peaceful relations between them will be impossible unless Israel is willing to make some concessions. But Israel doesn't seem willing to make concessions.

[peregrin]

Grilleds, on 13 July 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

Peaceful relations between them will be impossible unless Israel is willing to make some concessions. But Israel doesn't seem willing to make concessions.

Which is why giving them guns is possibly the worst idea ever.

[Grilleds]

peregrin, on 13 July 2011 - 11:58 PM, said:

Which is why giving them guns is possibly the worst idea ever.

Exactly!

[85centimeters]

I think the US should be more firm in its demands. Instead of requesting border changes it should send Israel an ultimatum. Israel is in no position to refuse should the US do so.

[pegasaurus]

Grilleds, on 13 July 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

Peaceful relations between them will be impossible unless Israel is willing to make some concessions. But Israel doesn't seem willing to make concessions.

peregrin, on 13 July 2011 - 11:58 PM, said:

Which is why giving them guns is possibly the worst idea ever.

Grilleds, on 14 July 2011 - 01:26 AM, said:

Exactly!

/thread.

A Nobel Peace Prize for these two!

[Pedro The Hutt]

85centimeters, on 14 July 2011 - 01:34 AM, said:

I think the US should be more firm in its demands. Instead of requesting border changes it should send Israel an ultimatum. Israel is in no position to refuse should the US do so.

Few politicians in the US are willing to risk that because that'd *gasp* mean losing all the Jewish voters! And considering in cities like New York over 9% of the populace is Jewish, that is a significant chunk of votes you can lose (nearly 2 million in NYC alone), while in total only between 1.9 and 2.2% of the American populace is Jewish, they tend to cluster in important voting regions, and if not that, hold very important economical and cultural positions. So... heh, it'd require a really ballsy American president to make a fist against Israel.

[shinigami852]

Didn't I just point out that Israel could make guns? If we didn't support Israel I still think it would win, but on the other hand if we had supported Palestine...

[LegendaryMackioVirus]

And IF a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it hopped. Positing on alternate realities will get neither Israel nor Palestine anywhere. Actually, I dunno what well get those two anywhere since neither one's willing to bend on the situation.

[pegasaurus]

LegendaryMackioVirus, on 15 July 2011 - 05:11 AM, said:

And IF a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it hopped. Positing on alternate realities will get neither Israel nor Palestine anywhere. Actually, I dunno what well get those two anywhere since neither one's willing to bend on the situation.

Although it is true that the Israel/Palestine situation seems hopeless, let us remember that it could take as little a one man to dramatically alter the situation. I'm pretty sure that I don't need to list events that were drastically affected by a single person. Hopefully the Israel/Palestine situation gets a Gandhi type of person as opposed to a Hitler type of person.

[LegendaryMackioVirus]

pegasaurus, on 15 July 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

Although it is true that the Israel/Palestine situation seems hopeless, let us remember that it could take as little a one man to dramatically alter the situation. I'm pretty sure that I don't need to list events that were drastically affected by a single person. Hopefully the Israel/Palestine situation gets a Gandhi type of person as opposed to a Hitler type of person.

Actually, Gandhi wasn't alone. He had his buddy Nehru right there with him. Gandhi was also disappointed with the way things turned out, the Muslim community splitting off to form Pakistan, who absolutely hates India to this day.

[CynicalPsycho]

The situation sucks. To ensure their survival, Israel kinda has to be who they are. Of course they don't want to make concessions, that will show weakness to all the bordering countries that hate them.

[Pedro The Hutt]

Yeah well, I refer you to a previous post of mine. On top of that, even if all the surrounding countries genuinely hate them (and even then, they're aware that they can't just break UN conventions), don't you think they're kind of entitled to hate them since Israel's basically been a dick to its neighbours for the past fifty years?

[LegendaryMackioVirus]

Pedro The Hutt, on 16 July 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yeah well, I refer you to a previous post of mine. On top of that, even if all the surrounding countries genuinely hate them (and even then, they're aware that they can't just break UN conventions), don't you think they're kind of entitled to hate them since Israel's basically been a dick to its neighbours for the past fifty years?

If they're "entitled to hate them," then everyone in the world is "entitled to hate" the UK, Spain, France, and Russia for several hundred years of imperialism. Humans have done some pretty fucked up things to one another. Israel's not the first to play the Asshole card. Thus, let's try not to fall down that slope of hatred because it's that shit that got us into this mess in the first place.

[Pedro The Hutt]

Heh, I think I phrased that poorly and you're entirely right. What I meant to say was that I can't entirely blame them. Not that I approve of it.

[peregrin]

LegendaryMackioVirus, on 16 July 2011 - 02:27 PM, said:

If they're "entitled to hate them," then everyone in the world is "entitled to hate" the UK, Spain, France, and Russia for several hundred years of imperialism. Humans have done some pretty fucked up things to one another. Israel's not the first to play the Asshole card. Thus, let's try not to fall down that slope of hatred because it's that shit that got us into this mess in the first place.

Drawing on that analogy, what I'd HOPE Palestine could do is stage a massive non-violent protest against Israel a la Gandhi back in the British Imperialism days. Lots of people play the asshole card, but you really can't just ignore it when they do. Protest is important, but violence is bad.

[pegasaurus]

LegendaryMackioVirus, on 16 July 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

Actually, Gandhi wasn't alone. He had his buddy Nehru right there with him. Gandhi was also disappointed with the way things turned out, the Muslim community splitting off to form Pakistan, who absolutely hates India to this day.

I meant more of the type of person Ghandi represents as opposed to Ghandi himself, but yeah, I see your point he was not satisfied with how things worked out.

Right now I feel like the situation consists of two sides fighting each other as puppets for bigger acts. I honestly think the only way this problem will be solved is if somebody who is either a Pakistani or Israeli native rises up to lead peace talks. As far as I know, it's the UN and the EU trying to for the two into peace talks.

[shinigami852]

I don't know why everyone wants to minimize or remove the violence. A lot of the world's problems were and can be solved by violence...

[LegendaryMackioVirus]

shinigami852, on 19 July 2011 - 12:01 AM, said:

I don't know why everyone wants to minimize or remove the violence. A lot of the world's problems were and can be solved by violence...

"The pen is mightier than the sword." Violence begets violence.

[85centimeters]

Violence is always the best short-term solution. But only a fool looks at only the short-term.